Sorry for the delay. Here is the website where I found this list. It also has lists that were compiled by several other "cult experts." Steve Hassan's list is also on this site.
Faithful Witness
JoinedPosts by Faithful Witness
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JW. org: "No, we are not a cult. We do not look to any human as our leader."
by Faithful Witness ini know this has been rehashed, time and again, but i saw this interesting blip on jw.org last night, and did a little thinking about it.... jw.
org answers the important question that so many have... are jehovah's witnesses a cult?.
jehovah's witnesses do not look to any human as their leader.
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My JW mom is coming to visit this Friday!!
by Faithful Witness inmy parents are recent converts to jw (both baptized).
i was never a jw, but did study with them for a long time.
after doing research, my husband and i quit going to meetings and stopped the bs.
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Faithful Witness
Crazyguy: I already tried that, and I was too late! It only convinced them to avoid me.
My parents are both baptized. My father is fully indoctrinated. My sister has stopped speaking to me because she believes I not only "turned away from Jehovah," but have been "attacking the Witnesses."
They belong to a cult, and unfortunately have become convinced that "Satan" and his army are now using me to try to draw them away from the flock.
I have been spending the last 18 months, trying to regain trust and a real relationship with my family, my mother in particular. She used to be like my best friend, and I could tell her anything. I told her too much about the JWs, and she stopped visiting. She used to visit us and routinely spend 1-2 nights. Then she didn't visit us for over a year, and came over once for 3 hours. This is going to be visit #2 in 6 months.
My kids really miss Grandma. My husband's parents are dead, so this is a special relationship to them.
I am really hoping we can just have a fun time and create some memories today.
The war against the Watchtower continues, but in a much more subtle way. She knows I have done research. She knows where I stand, and that I am also paying attention to the abuse my family is under by the WTS. Our once "happy enough" family, has been ripped in half by the JWs. My mother and I are both peacemakers by nature, and this is upsetting her. I hope she brings it up, but I don't want to spend all day focusing on the pain, fear and abuse.
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Moustaches vs. beards - one of the contributing factors to losing my cognitive dissonace
by Pacopoolio inas a little background - i was born-in to being a witness, back in '79, in detroit, in mostly black and poor congregations.
baptized when 10-ish, stayed around, was on the fast track to ms, but faded when i moved out at 24ish.. there was a combination of a few things that got me on the road to "freedom" from the cognitive dissonance that kept me "in the truth" for so long.
the main thing was, being an artist and studying marketing, my thinking was patterned to constantly question if i was doing something "correctly," as constant improvement and questioning is what facilitates artistic and mental growth.
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Faithful Witness
I know a JW who has a full beard.
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I need to help to counter JW misinformation!
by Island Man inin this yahoo answers quesiton jw apologists are trying to give the impression that the watchtower never published any information about parents fondling the genitals of their infants leading to masturbation later on.
the jw apologists claims vary from saying it's not true to accusing the questioner and one ex-jw answerer of not having proof and being untrustworthy with the truth.. i want to provide proof to the contrary but the online library doesn't go have magaizes as far back as 1973 when the article was published.
i think that the best proof would be a screenshot of the watchtower library open to the article with the statement highlighted.
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Faithful Witness
I agree with what Jon said. Any adult doing that, is a pedofile.
Whose idea was that?? I have never heard of such a practice.
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JW. org: "No, we are not a cult. We do not look to any human as our leader."
by Faithful Witness ini know this has been rehashed, time and again, but i saw this interesting blip on jw.org last night, and did a little thinking about it.... jw.
org answers the important question that so many have... are jehovah's witnesses a cult?.
jehovah's witnesses do not look to any human as their leader.
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Faithful Witness
I know this has been rehashed, time and again, but I saw this interesting blip on jw.org last night, and did a little thinking about it...
JW. org answers the important question that so many have... Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult?
No, Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult... Consider two common perceptions regarding cults, and why those don't apply to us.
• Some think of a cult as being a new 1 or unorthodox religion... ... we pattern our worship after that of the first-century Christians 2 ...
• Some think of a cult as being a dangerous 3 religious sect with a human 4 leader. Jehovah's Witnesses do not look to any human as their leader. Rather, we adhere to the standard that Jesus set for his followers when he stated: "Your Leader is one, the Christ." - Matthew 23:10
Far from being a dangerous cult, Jehovah's Witnesses practice a religion that benefits its members and others 5 in the community...
observations: 1 This organization is less than 150 years old. 2 Jesus did not shun people. First century Christians did not worship the name of their group or the fact that they were somehow chosen by God. They actually worshipped God. (there is a difference) JW's worship the Name of their organization. 3 This one is debatable, but I don't trust anyone who tells me to get ready to: "Obey us, even if it makes no sense from a human standpoint." There is also the blood doctrine, encouraging so many people to die for the Name of the organization by refusing blood. I wonder how many secretly wish they could face that decision, just to prove their obedience? What kind of things are said at a funeral of a member who dies by refusing blood? Anything extra added to their eulogy? Are they going to get a bonus from Jehovah for the sacrifice of their own life? I don't know. 4 Governing Body is not human? If they aren't, what are they? If they are, then I guess that means no one in the organization should look to them as their leader.
• Ok, they have cleared themselves of two "common" perspectives on cults. That's a relief! I guess I might take another look at joining.
Let's consider what the University of California Berkley has to say about cults. Do any of these apply to the Jehovah's Witnesses and the way they "worship?" Are these models described below, derived from the first century Christians, or are any of them new and/or unorthodox? The worship style of the Jehovah's Witnesses is called a "meeting." Worship is actually supposed to be a joyful and happy occasion. Meetings are boring and unemotional.
I am going to highlight only my own experience with the JWs, and what I have personally observed and experienced. I have read Watchtower study articles that almost quote some of these lines below, but if I didn't experience them personally, I did not highlight the text.
Anything in red text, is something I experienced or witnessed from the organization or its members. I was a Bible student who went to meetings.
I fit the role of potential recruit, but then I changed my mind.
Supposedly, you should be concerned if the group you want to join, meets at least half of the criteria listed.
University of California at Berkeley (19 Characteristics)
Recruitment
1. Deception - Group identity and/or true motives are not revealed. The group leaders tell members to withhold truth from outsiders 1.
2. Emotional Leverage/Love Bombing - Instant friendship, extreme helpfulness, generosity and acceptance 2...Group recruiters "lovingly" will not take "no" for an answer-invitations impossible to refuse without feeling guilty and/or ungrateful. "Love", "generosity", "encouragement" are used to lower defenses and create an ever increasing sense of obligation, debt and guilt.
3. Exploit Personal Crisis 3 - They use an existing crisis as a means of getting you to participate. They exploit vulnerability arising from:
- Broken relationships
- Death in the family
- Loss of job
- Move to new location
- Loneliness/depression
- Guilt/shame
- Stress/fear
4. Crisis Creation - They employ tactics designed to create or deepen confusion, fear, guilt or doubt. i.e. "you aren't serving God the way He intended." Questions areas of faith never before examined or explored and attack other faiths specifically 4.
5. All The Answers 4 - Provide simple answers to the confusion they, themselves, create. Support these answers with material produced or "approved" by the group.
1 Never told us about the existence of their faithful and discreet slave (only heard comments murmured at meetings). See also #4 & 10 (truth withheld) 2&3 Yes! Especially when we moved to new location. Helped us move, unpack, helped us after auto accident...) 4 They raised new questions, that we'd never thought of, and answered those. Told us to question all religions, except JW's... see #10 also.
Programming
1. Intense Study - Focus is on group doctrine and writings. Bible, if used at all, is referred to one verse at time to "prove" group teachings 5.
2. Opposer Warnings - Recruiters are told that "Satan" will cause relatives and friend to say bad things about the group 6 to try to "steal them away from God." Recruits soon believes group members, alone, are truthful/trustworthy.
3. Guilt and Fear - Group dwells on members' "sinful nature" (many use public confession). Guilt and fear arising from "failing God" are magnified to manipulate new member.
4. Schedule Control & Fatigue - Study and service become mandatory. New member becomes too busy to question. Family, friends, jobs and hobbies are squeezed out, further isolating the new member.
5. Attack Independent Thought - Critical thinking is discouraged as prideful 7 and sinful, blind acceptance encouraged.
6. Divine Commission - Leader(s) claim new revelation from God, within past 200 years, in which all but their group are rejected by God. They, alone, speak for God.
7. Absolutism - They insist on total, unquestioning obedience and submission to the group, both actions AND thoughts. Group "love" and acceptance becomes dependent upon obedience and submission 8 . Unconditional love...isn't.
8. Totalism - "Us against them" thinking. Strengthens group identity. Everyone outside of group lumped under one label 9 .
5 We noticed they routinely skipped over entire passages (ie Matthew 25:31-34, 46 - parable: sheep & goats) from their articles and publications. 6 I remember an early lesson warns us that people might try to talk you out of studying with them. That is because Satan doesn't like it when you start getting closer to God. 7 Don't worry so much about those particular details. These numbers (a day, 1000 years, 7) or examples (feed the hungry) are "figurative." These other numbers (144,000) or symbols are "literal." (more confusion) 8 They are only friendly to you when you are attending meetings. 9 My sister has started shunning me, even though I never even joined.
Retention
1. Motive Questioning 10- When sound evidence against the group is presented, members are taught to question the motivation of the presenter. The verifiable (sound documentation) is ignored because of doubts over the unverifiable (presenter's motives). See Opposer Warnings (#2 above).
2. Information Control - Group controls what convert may read or hear. They discourage (forbid) contact with ex-members or anything critical of the group 11. May say it is the same as pornography making it not only sinful and dangerous but shameful as well. Ex-members become feared and avoidance of them becomes a "survival issue."
3. Isolation, Separation & Alienation - Group becomes substitute family. Members encouraged to drop worldly (non-members) friends. May be told to change jobs, quit school, give up sports, hobbies, etc.
4. Coercion - Disobedience, including even minor disagreement with group doctrine, may result in expulsion and shunning 12.
5. Phobias - The idea is planted that anyone who leaves goes into a life of depravity and sin, loses their sanity, dies, or will have children die, etc. Constant rumors of bad things happening to people who leave. No one ever leaves for "legitimate reasons."
6. Striving for the Unreachable - Group membership and service are essential for salvation 13..."Work your way into God's favor." NO matter what you do, it is never enough.
10 When we showed evidence about the organization to our teacher, he immediately tuned out the information, as it came from "apostates!" (another doctrine or "truth" they withheld... "research everything except us!") 11 There are multiple ways they get you to start thinking this way, and believing it is wrong to "stumble" someone else with anything they might not like to hear about their own religion 12 I was never baptized, but my sister cut me off because I asked her a couple of tough questions she could not answer. 13 My husband was threatened in private by our BS conductor, about how he was sentencing his entire family to die at Armageddon, if he didn't "start making some progress here..."
Anyway... I experienced 13 of the 19 on this particular list of warning signs that a group might be a cult. I heard rumors about most of the other ones.
Just my experience and opinions, of course. If an adult chooses to see these warning signs and still be a member of this JWs, that's one thing. Children should be no part of this, and forcing them into a JW life is unimaginable.
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My JW mom is coming to visit this Friday!!
by Faithful Witness inmy parents are recent converts to jw (both baptized).
i was never a jw, but did study with them for a long time.
after doing research, my husband and i quit going to meetings and stopped the bs.
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Faithful Witness
I just got an email from her, telling me she is still planning to come. She has had the tendency to cancel plans with me, so I'm really glad she is coming over. We have also had the worst winter in decades, so I'm thankful there is no prediction of snow!!
She even said she was looking forward to it. I feel like a little kid again... Mommy's coming home! hahaha.
Time to panic clean (and also make sure there is no sign of apostate literature in sight...)
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Argument with my Child "Why did I stay in the Organization so long?" Anger and Bitter Feelings.
by RottenRiley inlast night my third oldest child wanted to know why we stayed in the organization so long.
child is a third year college student enjoying all the classes this "wicked system" has to offer, the insatiable appetite for learning makes him want to argue and debate, i don't have the energy to debate because i don't feel good with all life has thrown our way.. .
"the only reason i went to meetings so long was because grandma and grandpa needed somebody to take them to meetings and cobe aunt and uncle and secretary aunt and uncle refused to talk to grandma for years, otherwise i would have stopped attending the kingdom hall because the kids were assholes and i was always the one who had to make "first contact", "i was the one who had to go around and meet and greet newbies while the regular jw wall-flowers (calebs) ignored all the visitors and new persons visiting our kingdom hall.
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Faithful Witness
BOTR: You can never get those years back. I deserved better.
Thank you for expressing these sentiments! It couldn't be more true. It is a powerful reality that anyone who knows a child JW should seriously consider. They are being forced into it.
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The Memorial campaign: What question from a householder would have made you think?
by Faithful Witness ini know that soon, the jws in our area will be out in full force, on their hit and run campaign with invitations to the memorial.
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did you ever encounter a householder during this campaign, that made you stop and think about what you were doing?
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Faithful Witness
I know that soon, the JWs in our area will be out in full force, on their hit and run campaign with invitations to the memorial.
Did you ever encounter a householder during this campaign, that made you stop and think about what you were doing?
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My JW mom is coming to visit this Friday!!
by Faithful Witness inmy parents are recent converts to jw (both baptized).
i was never a jw, but did study with them for a long time.
after doing research, my husband and i quit going to meetings and stopped the bs.
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Faithful Witness
My parents are recent converts to JW (both baptized). I was never a JW, but did study with them for a long time. After doing research, my husband and I quit going to meetings and stopped the BS.
My dad is completely indoctrinated at this point, but my mom sees how ridiculous he is being. I have always been very close with my mom, but not so much with my dad. He does not answer my calls or emails. He is avoiding me, and acts like a wooden statue when we do see each other. I know he is confused. I've just been giving him his space.
I have made contact with my mom. I called her about 2 weeks after my sister decided to "stop communicating" with me. My mom didn't seem to know about sis's decision, and it clearly made her upset. She expressed frustration and anger at the way my sister was acting. She had also had another conversation with her, where sis told her they would not be interested in coming to our family party, even if it was at JW mom's house. "You can check w/J, but I don't think we would come." My mom and I discussed this for a few minutes before she said, "I told Dad, 'You know... when you see things like this, it really makes you look at the Jehovah's Witnesses, and want nothing to do with it!'" I did not respond to her making that statement (my sentiments exactly).
I am actually thinking that my sister's unreasonable behavior is going to stir the pot, upsetting Mom and really aggravating the peacemaker in her. This concern was one that Mom had raised years ago, while she was still studying. "Jehovah's Witnesses divide families." Well, now it has happened.
Mom has also previously made the comment, "Well, maybe I shouldn't have gone ahead and been baptized..."
Upon the advice of a friend, I emailed Mom and asked if I could be put on her calendar. The idea is that we will arrange and meet (weather-permitting) every 2nd Friday of the month. Last I heard, she is planning to come and visit this Friday. It will be nice if she does come, since the kids are really looking forward to it.
In her email, Mom said, "I miss talking to you, too!" I do not plan to bring up anything JW, but have a feeling that she probably will.
She is coming on Friday, but did make sure to mention that she has to go home Friday night. (She used to come for 2 night stays a few times a year). She said, "I need to go out in service. I've really been slacking!" I'm not sure the intention of that statement, which she has made a few times in the past. On the one hand, I'm sad to be reminded that the WTS is a higher priority than her grandkids she has not seen in months. On the other hand, I'm happy to hear that she's been "slacking!" Good girl, Mom!
She went on to mention that she was visiting her (non-JW) sister last Saturday, so there goes another field service day out the window. Yay! Maybe I'm supposed to "understand" and therefore accept that the preaching work is more important than your own family. Her sister has no understanding of that, and they do get together one Saturday every month. One less Saturday of riding around, getting indoctrinated and judged... go see Aunt C instead!
I have no agenda for her visit this week, except to have a good time and visit with my real mom. This whole JW experience has really put a spotlight on some personality issues that she has, but I've got plenty of real life things we can talk about. If she wants to bring up her concerns about anything from the JW's, I'm willing to listen. :)
I take that back... There is one question I would like to ask her. She recently had a serious illness that prevented her from walking or leaving the house. She was hospitalized for 4 nights. I did not hear glowing reports of how many JW's were visiting or helping her out during her illness, so I am curious to know how much support and love she experienced in her time of need. I plan to ask, just casually...
When we were Bible students, we had a few times of "need," and we found the JWs here to be oh so helpful and generous! They came and cleaned my house, brought us hot meals, watched the kids while I visited my husband at the hospital after our car accident... Such good neighbors they were. It really felt like genuine friendship and love. I now suspect that this type of giving behavior, is reserved for unbaptized ones. We were a gold mine for service hours, with our long Bible studies that were actually long social calls with 30 minutes of studying.
Like a recent visitor to this site, impala63rag, I experienced what I would call some "true" friendship and care from the JWs I knew. To this day, I have a love and compassion for them, that I have not had with any others I know today. It is sad to admit that, since none of those people talk to me anymore, and they stopped "calling on us" almost 2 years ago now. I guess not even some bonus service time is worth risking your spiritual health by talking to someone who asks difficult questions.
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I want to send a nice note to my sister
by Faithful Witness init's been about 5 weeks, since my sister sent me the email telling me she no longer wants to communicate with me (at this time).. i was never a jw, so i am not going to agree to those crazy terms.
i explained to her that she can do what she wants, but i will continue to be kind, and that i forgive her cruel treatment toward me.. i have given her some space, and i feel like i am ready to send her another note.
instead of bringing up any hard feelings of today, i was going to share some memories that i have of our early, pre-jw days.
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Faithful Witness
Hi Robert, I'm going to post a new thread to answer that. My mom is coming to visit us this Friday!
She lives 65 miles away, but we have not had an unsupervised (without my dad along) visit with her since last fall.
Our plan is to schedule Grandma time, the 2nd Friday of every month. I'm hoping she will stay long enough, to see my husband get home from work. We all miss her so much. I still think of her as my best friend, and pretty much the one person I can talk to about everything.